Growth Masters Podcast

Welcome back to Growth Masters, the podcast for Toastmasters, club officers and members who are committed to building thriving clubs.

I'm your host, Jim Zboran, Division A Director for District 8, and I'm joined today once again by Derek Zboran, Area 5 Director in District 8, Division A.

In our first two episodes, we covered creating a magnetic new member experience and using the Distinguished Club Program as your club health dashboard.

Today, we're diving into the heart of what makes Toastmasters valuable, the Pathways learning experience.

Now, I know that Pathways gets mixed reactions.

Some members love the structure and flexibilities.

Others miss the old manual system.

But here's what I want to focus on today.

How to leverage Pathways not just as an educational curriculum, but as your club's most powerful tool for retention, engagement, and yes, growth.

Think about it.

Pathways drives six of your 10 DCP goals.

That's more than half your club's success metrics.

When members are actively progressing through Pathways, they're engaged, they're attending regularly, and they're seeing visible progress.

And they're experiencing the transformation that made them join Toastmasters in the first place.

And when members are engaged and transforming, they tell others, they bring guests, they become ambassadors, and they renew when it comes time for renewals.

So today, we're going to talk about how to help new members choose the right path, how to get started on the right foot, and also how to create a culture where completing levels is normal and celebrated, how to overcome the common obstacles that cause members to stall out, and how to use Pathways strategically to achieve those ambitious DCP education goals.

Whether your club is crushing it with Pathways or struggling to get members to complete even level one, this episode will give you practical strategies to turn your educational program into a growth engine.

Derek, let's start with the fundamentals.

All righty, Jim.

So let's start with a bold claim that I've heard you make, which is that Pathways is your club's most powerful retention and growth tool.

So that's a strong statement.

You mentioned that Pathways can be a little controversial.

What do you mean by when you say that Pathways is your club's most powerful retention and growth tool?

Well, it's simple.

Members join Toastmasters to improve their communication and leadership skills.

Usually one of those two, they don't really realize the other, typically not realizing leadership is involved as well.

But once they get into the group, then they realize leadership.

So really, they're there to improve their communication and to some extent, leadership skills.

And Pathways is the vehicle that delivers on that promise.

Really, Pathways is the personal growth program of Toastmasters.

When members are actively working through Pathways, they're completing projects, seeing their skills develop, earning recognition for levels, they're getting tangible value and tangible real-world value.

They're not just attending meetings, they're making measurable progress towards personal and professional goals.

And here's the thing, engaged members stay.

Members who complete their first path are far more likely to renew their membership than those who stall at level one.

Retention drives growth because you're building a stable, vibrant club that attracts others.

Plus, when members achieve visible results, they nail a presentation at work, they lead a successful project, they credit Toastmasters and they bring colleagues.

Pathways isn't just education, it's your value demonstration system.

A lot of clubs struggle with Pathways adoption.

Some members don't understand it.

Others find it overwhelming.

Some just refuse to engage with it, period.

They want to go back to the old books.

How do we change the narrative on Pathways?

That's a great question.

I believe that we change it by making Pathways accessible, relevant, and normal.

First, accessibility.

Too many clubs assume members will figure out Pathways on their own.

And in my experience, they won't, most of them.

The VPE really needs to provide hands-on guidance, literally sitting with new members, log into Basecamp together, explore the paths, explain how projects work.

And I remember sitting down with a gentleman who was in his 70s at a coffee shop.

He had brought his laptop computer, so he couldn't figure out how to get into Pathways.

And I was the VPE at Ozark Orders.

And I sat down and I walked him through and walked him into it.

He ended up being our first one that year to complete his level one.

So really, there aren't that many members in an individual club that are new.

And so we should spend the time and focus on the new ones and help them to get started on the right foot with some real personal attention.

Not everybody's going to need it, but the ones that do, we should sit down with them and help them.

But we should make sure that everybody is able to get onto it.

Now, second, relevance.

Help members connect Pathways to their real world goals.

It's more than just picking a path.

What you want to do is ask, what do you want to achieve?

Do you want to improve your workplace presentations, lead teams more effectively, tell better stories, and then recommend paths that align with those goals, their goals.

And that's the important thing.

Pathways will adjust to fit anybody's leadership and communication goals, but we have to show them how.

They don't know the Pathways and they don't know how it's going to fit their goals.

So find out what their goals are and then help them to choose a pathway that will help them towards that.

So you recommend paths that align with those goals.

And then third, there's normalization.

Make Pathways the default.

Every speech should be a Pathways project.

Celebrate level completions at every meeting.

When Pathways is woven into the fabric of your club culture, it stops being that confusing thing and becomes what we do here.

And that's really key.

It's that culture of Pathways.

And I like to call it a culture of Pathways from day one.

I really aim to get everybody started in on their icebreaker, which is the first project in any pathway they choose.

I really strive to get them started on that.

And when I can get them to do that icebreaker in the first 30 days, and then they finish that, they're proud of themselves.

We've given them good feedback.

They have most of the time have seen themselves grow just from that one experience.

And then I'm already starting to help them to move into the second project, Speech with a Purpose, typically.

So they start to build momentum and they start to really see it just as a normal thing that Toastmasters do.

When I joined Toastmasters maybe 30 years ago in Chicago, I walked in and there were people with booklets.

And then I joined and I got booklets.

And every club meeting, there were booklets.

And you could see the booklets all over the place and people were doing speeches from them.

They were referencing them.

You could see, just by walking in, you could see this is what Toastmasters do.

And I was a Toastmaster now, so that's what I did.

Well, with Pathways, because it's in a digital format and it's lost on your smartphone as an icon among many apps, it tends to be out of mind.

So we need to make it visible by bringing it into the culture of referencing it often, doing many Pathways speeches during our meetings, and just making it visible through our actions and ultimately the culture that we have as Toastmasters.

Pathways is just a normal thing we do.

Very good.

Yeah, and you do a great job with getting new members.

I'd also say it helps with, I know last episode we were talking about retention.

It kind of helps when people can do a nice breakers speech, get great feedback on it, and then there's that sense of belonging because they've already shared their story with people.

So that's pretty powerful.

Now, there are six paths in Pathways.

And for a new member, that can feel really overwhelming sometimes, like choosing which pathway.

How should clubs help new members choose the pathway that's right for them?

Yeah, that's another key question there.

And I think the really important thing is to start with their goals.

Okay, not the path descriptions.

Don't sit down and describe everything, but rather sit down with the new member and ask, what brought you to Toastmasters?

What do you want to improve?

And then listen to what they say.

And if they say something like, I want to be more confident presenting to executives, you might steer them towards presentation mastery.

If they say, well, I want to inspire my team, you know, you might consider motivational strategies or visionary communication.

If they're unsure, maybe dynamic leadership is a good choice for them.

Typically, what I'll do is I'll show the person the different options, and I'll say, if any of these stand out to you, then you probably should go with that one.

But if nothing really stands out to you, pick presentation mastery, because that's really going to give you the foundational skills that are going to serve you in your professional and personal goals today.

And it's also going to build your skills so that when you do the other pathways, you're going to get more out of those pathways.

And so I'll kind of guide towards presentation mastery if there's no clear interest in anything, but I will always frame presentation mastery or any of the ones that is attracted to them in terms of what they want.

So that's really where it starts, what they want.

And then I'm really kind of a guy to show them how that pathway can be relevant to what they want so they can make a good choice.

So you like a person-centric approach to it.

Let's talk about, yeah, and that's a helpful way to approach anything, honestly, with Toastmasters, is people first, right?

Exactly.

Speaking of people first, mentors can play a role.

How can mentors help new members navigate pathways in the first few weeks that you mentioned are critical for the new member?

Well, ideally, mentors should be pathway guides, okay, not just cheerleaders.

In the first meeting, the mentor should literally walk the new member through base camp, if they can, on the phone, on their smartphone, or, you know, on perhaps a laptop, you know, that's where they are, or offer to get on Zoom with them and walk them through, share the screen and walk them through it.

And just literally walk them through it.

So here's where you log in.

Here's your path.

Here's your first project.

Let me explain what you'll need to do.

And then help them schedule their icebreaker within the first two to three weeks.

That first speech is the momentum builder.

After the icebreaker, the mentor checks in and says, hey, great job, ready for your next project.

Let's look at what it requires.

So the mentor is really helping the person get onto the pathway path so that they can just get started.

And they're only going one step at a time.

So the mentor there is there to help them get onto the icebreaker.

And then once they do the icebreaker, the mentor is there to help them move into the next project.

And once they finish level one, they're really moving on their own and they'll be fine.

But the real benefit the mentor can bring to a new member is to help them to get on the pathways and to work through them.

The mentor really keeps that new member moving forward, removing confusion and celebrating each milestone.

That's really a key role of a mentor in a club.

And without this active guidance, new members will log into pathways once.

They'll see all kinds of buttons, all kinds of things to look at.

They'll feel overwhelmed and then they're never going to go back.

And it's the mentor's job to make pathways feel doable.

And pathways is very doable, but it doesn't look like it when you first visit or the first couple times.

It's kind of like Facebook or some other social media.

The first time you use it, it's totally confusing.

You have no idea what you're doing.

You just start clicking some buttons and there's all kinds of things you could do, but you want to be there to perhaps communicate with friends or family.

And so you just hang in there and pretty soon you become like an expert at it.

You know everything to do.

And then those social media companies, they're changing features every month or so.

And then you're relearning everything over and over and we just roll with it.

And we just become good by trying it and doing it.

And pathways doesn't change that often.

So if we just get in there and try to do it, we're going to learn it pretty quickly.

But the trick is it feels overwhelming for the first or second time you visit.

And if somebody's there holding you by hand and showing you what to click or where to go, it takes away all the other distractions and it allows the new member to just get where they're going.

And then they're getting excited because they're working on their project.

Until they're excited working on their projects, they don't really have a motivation to get past that overwhelm they're feeling.

So the mentor's job is to make Pathways feel doable because it is doable, but it looks confusing the first time somebody sees it.

Makes sense.

Now, let's say somebody gets started on it.

They have no problem navigating the technical side of it, but they realize that in terms of the content, it's not the right fit for them.

What should clubs do when someone says, Hey, you know, I don't think the presentation path is right for me.

I want to try humor.

I want to try visionary or some other pathway.

Yeah.

Encourage it.

Okay.

Switching paths isn't failure.

It's learning.

You know, maybe someone chose, you know, a persuasive influence, but realize they're more interested in team building.

So they went to something that was more appropriate to that.

That's perfectly fine.

The process is simple.

They can start a new path anytime at Basecamp.

Okay.

They're not going to lose credit for projects they've already completed.

And those, that pathway will remain there for them to go back to when they want to, if they want to.

And the path is $20 currently for, you know, entire pathway.

It could be about a year's worth of projects, you know, at a steady pace, you know, so it's really, we should be normalizing that many members explore multiple paths.

I personally have six paths and it's just a part of the learning journey.

The only caution I'd give is to encourage members to complete at least level one or level two before switching.

So they give the path a fair chance and they don't just jump around aimlessly because you could do like an icebreaker speech.

If you buy six pathways, you'll do six icebreakers and you're really not really progressing on, but if they complete a level one and maybe even level two, they've really got the foundational experience for any of the paths and they can then, you know, they've got the rhythm of the pathways.

They've got some momentum, they've got some skills built, and they're more likely to keep that momentum moving through a path, you know, through level three and four and five, rather than just getting stuck at a level one or level two and not being, you know, not wanting to, you know, move into something more complicated or detailed because they're afraid of it.

So let them get some momentum and then, you know, they can switch and it'd be perfectly fine.

But if someone genuinely realizes a path isn't serving their goals, then switching is smart, not quitting.

That's a good attitude.

And a lot of it, it's a niching, I think starts, you know, if you niche down, so to speak, I think it does start to happen in the later path, you know, the later levels.

Exactly.

So if they stay consistent with it until they realize the orientation itself isn't right, then move on.

Exactly.

Now let's say somebody's stuck though, they start, they do their icebreaker, they schedule their next speech, but then nothing really happens.

How do you prevent somebody from stalling on a pathway?

Not because they want to switch, but just because, well, life happens or whatever.

Well, I would say that it's proactive VPE leadership.

The VPE should track every member's progress and base camp and reach out personally when someone hasn't scheduled a speech in say four to six weeks.

You know, you can reach out and say, Hey Sarah, congratulations on your icebreaker last month.

I noticed you haven't scheduled your next project.

Can we get you on the agenda for two weeks from now?

Okay.

So don't wait for members to volunteer.

Go ahead and help them to choose, you know, speaking slots.

Base camp has a beautiful feature in there where you go to base cap manager as a club officer.

And so the VPE can do this and look at the tab that says paths and progress.

And there you see every club member, what path they're in.

And you see all the levels where they're at, how many of the projects they've completed for each level.

And that's a perfect coaching tool because you can look at where somebody is going to next.

And then you can go and open up a conversation about moving to that next step.

So create, and also create a club culture where being scheduled for a speech is normal and expected.

Okay.

Some clubs do speech rotations where everyone knows they'll speak approximately every, you know, six to eight weeks.

And maybe, maybe the club needs that to remove the awkwardness of asking and creating accountability.

Another strategy might be to pair new members with a speech buddy, you know, someone further along in pathways who checks in regularly and keeps them motivated.

Whatever's going to work for your club.

And this can be a process, but the idea is to get people moving forward.

And really, you know, from my perspective, I don't care if they do one speech every three months, as long as they're moving forward at the pace that they want to move forward, they're making progress and they're achieving their goals at the rate they want to achieve them.

If, if somebody, and we have a number of people in Ozark orders who, who want to do speeches every couple of weeks, and that's okay.

We do have to juggle that, but the thing is we get a lot of new members and those new members are really excited because we do have a pathways from day one culture and they're excited to knock down level one and level two.

And then once they start getting to level three, four, and five, the projects are becoming, you know, more extensive and so they're taking more time.

So they've got the momentum and the accomplishment, you know, under their belt, so to speak.

And now they're slowing down on speeches and they're, they're still moving through.

They've got momentum, but it's leaving more slots to newer members.

So it's really what's going to work for your club to help your members get, you know, a return on their investment in Toastmasters.

How are you going to help them to get their personal and professional growth goals met by doing speeches?

And so we just want to figure out how we can bring everybody into that, but at their own pace, at their own rate, at their own comfort level.

And it's really just a matter of talking with people and coaching them based on, you know, what, what speeches they've already done and where they're going next.

Let's shift over to the idea of creating that culture of progress through pathways.

You mentioned creating a culture where completing levels is normal.

I've seen that in Ozark orators.

What does that actually look like though in practice when you're trying to build that into the culture?

Well, it looks like celebration, recognition, visibility, and expectation.

First, celebration and recognition.

You know, every time someone completes a level, make a big deal of it.

You know, announce it at the meeting.

You know, you might want to do something like presenting a certificate or taking a photo, you know, post it on your social media.

Whatever it is that recognizes the person's accomplishment, just, just celebrate that.

And don't just celebrate path completion, celebrate level one, level two, level three, all of it.

And not only that, but celebrate every project done.

You've heard me in the, in Ozark orators often say, okay, you know, Navid, you've completed the second project in level two.

And so we're looking forward to your third project in level two.

You see, it's, there's always a reason to celebrate somebody's progress.

And I just bring it down right down to the level of the projects themselves.

And then second is visibility.

Okay.

Use a progress chart in your meeting room, show every member's current level and path.

When people see others advancing, they're motivated to keep up.

Now you can buy from the Toastmasters store, a nice big poster where you can write every member's name and you can track their progress with, you know, in a chart form.

And that's a pretty nice thing to have.

We don't use that, but I have, I've made a sheet, a Google sheet that doesn't look like a spreadsheet.

It looks more like a progress chart.

And then I, it's, you know, many colors and I print it up and then I use that to coach people.

So I'll bring it to people and I'll, when I talk about where they're at, I'll point to, you know, where they are on the chart on their line, but they're also seeing everybody else's line and they're seeing, you know, that the squares where people complete levels are, you know, in bright green.

So they're seeing this, this growing sea of green and they even see green behind their name sometimes.

And, and they're, they're, they're seeing the progress as a group thing, even when I'm talking about it, you know, with them individually.

So just, just have something where you, you can let them visually see progress.

Very good.

Let's talk about the role of evaluations.

Pathways projects have specific objectives as we know, how can evaluators use the objectives of the pathway to help members progress more effectively?

Well, evaluators need to be intimately familiar with the project objectives and structure their feedback around them.

And really it's, should be the toastmaster of the night who, you know, in announcing the speech mentions what the goal of the speech is, or it should be in the introduction or the speaker should mention what they're focused on.

So it's not just on the evaluator to, to know what the criteria is or the objectives of the project.

But over time, the evaluators will get to know, you know, the objectives of, of at least the basic projects.

And so they can just pick up what they already know.

And before every speech, the evaluator should review the project and base camp.

If they know ahead of time, what the speech is going to be.

Some clubs, you know, they, they have all that information right there, the title of the speech and the length of the speech and the project ahead of the, ahead of the meeting.

Other places will just have the name of the speaker.

And then, you know, the details of the speech aren't really announced until the meeting.

But if you have the chance, you know, review what the project is in a base camp and, you know, look at what the project that speaker is trying to accomplish and, you know, what are the success criteria.

And then during the evaluations explicitly referenced those objectives.

Okay.

Today, Sarah was working on connect with your audience.

And one of her objections was to make strategic eye contact.

I noticed she did this effectively in the opening by looking at different sections of the room.

See something like that.

And this approach does two things.

It shows the speaker and the audience that you took their project seriously.

And it also provides targeted feedback that helps them improve on the specific skills they're developing in that project.

Generic evaluations like great job.

I liked your story.

They're nice, but they don't really help members, you know, make progress objective based evaluations do.

So you might have the VP of your club might even want to just make a chart of the objectives for each project at each level.

And so, you know, that might be a quick handy reference right up at the podium or the lectern, you know, for the evaluator when they get up to do their evaluation.

One complaint I hear about Pathways is that some projects seem disconnected from what members want to work on.

So for example, someone might be required to give a speech with vocal variety, but maybe they think they really want to work on storytelling.

How would you address that?

Well, first, I would acknowledge that Pathways is a structured curriculum and structure means you're sometimes working on skills that aren't your top priority right now, but they're still valuable.

Vocal variety might not be what excites you, but it's a foundational skill that makes your storytelling more compelling.

So it relates to something that might be their priority.

So figure out how it relates to the priority and help them to see the pathway towards or the roadmap to hitting the objectives of the project while doing it on a topic they want to work on.

So there's flexibility within the projects.

Most projects have general requirements that leave a lot of room for creativity.

So even if your project focuses on vocal variety, you can still tell a story.

You're just emphasizing vocal elements while doing it.

The VP and mentors should help members to see how the required skills support their bigger goals.

And remind them, Pathways is a long game.

You might not love every single project, but the cumulative effort of completing a path is transformational.

The skills, they build on each other.

Very good.

And I would definitely agree on the flexibility of Pathways.

That's one of the things I like about it.

While it's structured, you really do have, you just have to be creative.

Like if you want to tell a story, there are many ways to say, it was a dark and stormy night, right?

And you can practice your vocal variety.

Exactly, exactly.

Just practice, practice what they want to do, but you just, a lot of what you can do is fitted into that.

Yes.

Now let's talk about electives.

Each path includes elective projects.

Members choose the topics that interest them.

How can clubs help members take full advantage of these opportunities?

Well, I love electives.

Electives are where members can customize their learning to their specific goals.

And clubs should highlight this.

When a member reaches the point where they're choosing an elective, the VPE or mentor should have a conversation.

Okay, you have five elective options.

Let's look at them.

Which one aligns best with what you want to develop?

You know, for example, if someone wants to improve their persuasive skills, you might choose persuade with power.

If they want to work on humor, they might choose connect with storytelling and humor.

The key is to make the electives intentional, not random.

Also clubs can showcase selective diversity, encourage members to choose different electives.

So the club experiences a variety of project types.

You know, you can do panels, you can do podcasts, you can do social media, you can do leadership projects.

There's just so many electives and there's so much room to tailor those electives to what you want to do, that it really makes those upper levels valuable for learning more advanced skills.

And by having a diversity of these electives in your group, you're keeping meetings fresh and it's demonstrating the breadth of pathways.

There are a lot of pathways, there are a lot of projects options because of the electives.

And they are really, even though it's a structured curriculum, there is a lot of room to customize the curriculum.

So you can really make your pathways projects be highly valuable in a real world sense for you.

Here's another practical question.

How do clubs balance the need to complete pathways projects with the desire to bring in outside speakers or do educational sessions that aren't pathways related?

You could do both, but pathways should be the priority.

Okay, here's a framework you might adopt or some other framework, but for example, aim for at least 70 to 80 percent of your prepared speeches to be pathways projects.

Okay, that ensures that members are progressing towards their education goals and the club is achieving DCP points or goal points.

For the remaining 20 or 30 percent, you can bring in outside speakers or you can do panel discussions.

You might host workshops on specific skills, you know, or you can even allow members to give non-pathways speeches if they have a compelling reason in my book.

Okay, the key is intentionality.

Don't let non-pathways content become a default because it's easier.

In a way, it's not easier, but people think that.

Every time you schedule non-pathways activity, ask yourself, is this serving our members development and our club's goals?

If yes, then great, go ahead and do it.

But if it's just filling time, reconsider that.

Pathways is the Toastmasters core curriculum.

Other activities should complement it, not replace it.

And the beauty of pathways, when I first joined Ozark Orders, they really weren't doing pathway speeches.

And people would give good speeches, but you would hear the same people doing speeches all the time.

And you see a lot of people not doing speeches because they didn't know what to talk about, or they were intimidated because other people, you know, were better speakers.

But once everybody started working on paths and doing pathways projects, now you had something you were working on and you could see all different skill levels and you understood that this was a learning process and that the goal wasn't to give a great speech.

The goal was to learn some skills.

And so pathways takes the focus of what the speeches are in a Toastmasters meeting and it puts it where they need to be.

They're educational.

They're not meant to be, you know, these shining examples of great speeches.

It's great if they can be, that's great if somebody's skills that developed, but really what the group is for is so people can become better and better speakers and leaders.

And we do that in a collaborative growth oriented culture and a club culture.

And if the only celebrated thing in a club culture or the only observed thing in a club culture is people doing speeches, you know, randomly, that leaves people who don't know what to talk about or who don't feel that they're quite as good speakers as the ones who are getting up all the time and speaking out in the cold.

So pathways is really an equalizer in the clubs that allows new people to get in and make progress.

And they're being celebrated for the skills they're learning as they're doing the paths, not because they're necessarily great speakers or not.

Yeah.

And I think that's really too important about it.

A speaker just observing in different clubs, people who do not engage with the pathways for whatever reason, tend to be the people that drop out of the club because why are they there?

I mean, there's no reason to be there really, unless they have their personal reasons.

But the thing is, is that pathways engages your personal goals if you're using them.

If you're not using them, then you're just kind of there.

And there's, you know, it's kind of that idea of you need a little bit of pressure and complexity to keep it interesting.

It kind of does that.

That's why it's level one, two, three, four, five.

Yes.

And the pathways also give you something to coach people on.

The mentors can use the specific pathway and the criteria of the pathway to help the person, you know, learning from that project, how they can help them through that project because they know what the goals are.

It's a little bit harder if you don't know what the goals of the person's speech are, you know, it's a little bit harder to coach and mentor them, but pathways really equalizes a lot.

Yeah.

And everybody can grow.

So even if you're experienced, it's really useful.

Oh yeah.

Experienced speakers are going to give much more polished speeches, pathways project speeches.

And so, you know, and that, but then because members that are less skilled to see what can be done with the projects, they're learning by watching that.

And by the more experienced people watch, less experienced people give speeches on projects they've already done or they will be doing again.

They, they see things with different eyes because they, they may recognize mistakes that they weren't aware of that, you know, because they're seeing it in somebody else doing it that has less skill and doesn't hide it as much.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense because if you watch people who do something badly and you're experienced enough to see what they're trying to do, you see that gap is glaring.

In fact, there's a jazz critic and there's other critics as well.

They like to say, if you're trying to learn something, you know, the masters already, cause you love it enough where you're studying the masters all the time.

Actually go take the time to go YouTube people who are trying to do it, but not, but failing and then don't not to be critical or laugh at them, but just to say, all right, these are people who are caring about this or trying, but there's an obvious gap here.

How are they missing that?

Yes, exactly.

And that's, that's another level of expertise plus two, just as somebody who does a lot of speaking, it's helpful to go back and revisit the basics because your pathway isn't, Oh, I master everything.

And then, you know, by the time I get to level five, I'm perfect.

It's more like you leverage your strengths and you get through and you kind of zigzag your way through it.

And then you have an opportunity to go back around and flesh out what you didn't focus on as much last time.

Cause for whatever reason, absolutely.

Every time you go to a, to revisit a pathway or a project that you've already done, you are really not the same person as you were the first time you did it.

And you've grown skills from other projects that you've done, you know, from since the last time you did that particular project.

So when you go back in a new pathway, but it's the same looking project as you've done in another pathway, you are going to bring more to it this time.

And you're going to get more out of it this time.

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaking of those experienced speakers, let's say somebody completes a pathway.

They even got through the whole five levels.

They feel great about it, but then they stopped.

They don't do another one.

How does a club encourage a successful member to continue their pathways journey beyond that first pathway?

By making multiple paths, the norm and highlighting the benefits.

Okay.

When, when someone completes their first path, celebrate that hugely.

And then immediately say, wow, this is incredible.

What path do you want to start next?

Frame it as when you start your next path, not if you start your next path, when you start your next path, share testimonials from members who've completed multiple paths, completing presentation mastery, changed how I approach client meetings.

Then I did a persuasive influence in a transform my sales conversations.

Just really highlight how the different paths have helped you out in different ways.

Help members see that different paths develop different skillsets.

And then also create friendly competition.

Okay.

Some clubs have a path completion club where anyone who's completed a path gets special recognition.

And there's visible tracking on who's working on their second, third, or even fourth path.

You know, when members see others pursuing multiple paths, it normalizes continue learning.

And it creates that as a normal part of the culture of the club.

And that culture of your club is really a reflection on the culture of a Toastmasters club.

And so people are really looking at it and they're, they're thinking, okay, this is just what Toastmasters do.

And I'm a Toastmaster.

So I'm going to do that too.

And so really a lot of this is just about making it normal.

Yeah.

Makes sense.

One of the things that comes up for some members, you mentioned, for example, the elderly gentleman who you took to the coffee shop, the technology can be a barrier for some of the members.

They struggle with Basecamp.

Maybe it's logging in, navigating the interface, although I will say they greatly improved that.

Accessing projects.

How can clubs support members who they just, they feel like they can't use computers or that computers are a struggle?

All the way, hands-on help and patience, hands-on help and patience.

Okay.

First during new member orientation, walk them through Basecamp step-by-step.

I do this very often on Zoom.

I just have people, you know, book a 20 minute Zoom call with me.

We hop on, I share my screen.

I walked them through it.

I'll do training, you know, webinars, you know, showing people how to walk through, you know, Basecamp.

It's really very simple.

Once you know how to do it, once somebody has showed you, so just help them with that.

Okay.

Don't just send them a link and wish them luck.

Sit with them, you know, whether in person or via screen share and show them how to log in, how to find their path, how to access a project and view resources.

And then second, you know, we do like to have handouts.

A lot of people do like to have handouts, myself included.

So maybe a cheat sheet of some sort.

So create a simple one-page Basecamp quick guide and make it specific to your club that answers common questions.

You know, forget your password.

Here's what to do, you know, and then, you know, things like that.

And then third, you can assign somebody who's tech savvy as the Basecamp helper, create a role in the club.

And that Basecamp helper can, you know, be the person that members with questions can contact.

And then, you know, really the fourth thing you could do is normalize once again, normalize asking for help.

Okay.

So just announce it from the podium.

If you're having trouble with Basecamp, that's completely normal.

Just ask.

We're here to help.

Okay.

The worst thing that clubs can do is assume everyone will figure it out.

They won't.

It doesn't mean they can't, but they won't.

It looks overwhelming or difficult and they don't want to expend the energy figuring it out right now.

So they'll put it aside and then they'll never get to it.

They'll procrastinate.

So anticipate tech barriers and proactively address them.

Help people to see how to do it and how it's simple to do it, even though it may look scary at first, very much like their favorite social media platform that they're on all the time.

Right?

Absolutely.

Some members say they don't have time to prepare Pathways projects, especially the ones that require research or outside evaluations.

What would you say to that?

Well, first I'd start with empathy.

You know, everybody is busy, but then I would challenge that premise.

Okay.

Pathways projects are designed to be completed in real world contexts.

You don't need to create extra work.

You integrate the pathway into what you're already doing.

That's one of the reasons why I have five, six pathways going, but actually I completed the one.

So now I'm down to five again, but I've got five pathways going and I'll do different projects, you know, in, in, in different pathways.

And I'm a member of a couple of different clubs.

And so, you know, I'm, I'm working through specific pathways and specific clubs.

And so I always have something open.

So I'm always bringing a world real world project and converting it into, you know, you know, or adjusting it to fit a Pathways project.

So, you know, just, you know, for example, if a project requires you to give a presentation, use a presentation you're already giving at work.

Okay.

If a project requires research, research a topic you're already interested in.

Okay.

Pathways should enhance your life, not burden it.

It's not like a, like a school assignment where you've got to do something you maybe don't want to do.

It's just, you know, this is the guidelines.

These are the learning objectives and, you know, then pick something you want to talk about and work it in the path, that pathway.

Now that said, some projects do require dedicated effort and that's intentional because growth requires investment.

If, if time is genuinely a barrier, I'd ask, what's one thing you could adjust to make room for this?

Maybe they schedule speeches less frequently.

Maybe they choose paths with projects that align with their current work.

The goal is progress, not perfection.

Once again, I don't mind if a person is doing one speech a quarter or even one speech every six months, if, if that is their desired pace, as long as they're working on something and they're moving forward.

Most people don't work through that slowly.

Most people are actually working through, in Ozark orders anyway, on a much faster pace, but people will change.

Some people will be very fast on a level and then they'll slow up on another level.

And as I mentioned before, the higher paths have, you know, have more complex types of projects to work on.

They make it, it makes them much more fun, but it also requires more time, six months, maybe even more.

So as long as people are making progress, that's fantastic.

It's, it's, the goal is progress, not perfection.

And you know, put your time that you have and work with that.

And if you want to work faster, what can you, what can you adjust in your schedule to make a little bit more time?

If you absolutely can't, no problem.

You know, put in 15 minutes a week and you can probably do, you know, you can do the first few levels.

You can do a lot of those projects, just the 15 minutes a week over time.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think it goes back to making the pathways actually part of the member's educational experience, because when you are literally picking things from your professional or personal life, then you are actually working on the pathways throughout your life.

As an example, I did that one of my last speeches, I think I prepared 15 to 20 minutes because I didn't have time because I'm a busy person, but I picked a topic in a talk that I had already practiced in multiple contexts at work.

So it wasn't, and it was something I was interested in.

So I just adapted that content to the speech I gave.

So, and I did it in a way that was compliant with the, with the requirements of that specific project.

So you can really do a lot if you're creative and thinking about what it is.

So if somebody thinks that they don't have time, you know, if they start with just looking at what the project is to begin with, you might find that throughout the week, you'll notice how something you're already doing in your life will create the content of that speech.

Yes.

And I think that's even a lot of times that's more valuable to do it that way, because then you're not, when you're doing the project, you're not focusing on the content because you already got that, you already have that.

But what you're doing is you're now working on the project.

You're focusing on the criteria of the project.

And that's really where your focus is because you don't have to focus on the content as much.

Yeah.

And a lot of times people, if they're overwhelmed with what Toastmaster provides, just important to realize that there's criteria for the project and there's extra resources just because the extra resources are there.

Yeah.

They're helpful, but if you don't need them, go look at what the criteria is for the project.

And you'll find it's usually some of them are actually pretty difficult.

They're not difficult.

They're involved.

Right.

So you're going to be at higher levels.

Yes.

And there's under electives and there's a lot of electives.

And so it's so customizable to what a person's interested in.

It's just a lot of people don't realize that.

And that's what mentors are for.

And that's what the VPE is for and other club officers as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I like, I like how you said, you know, connected to your life, because if you do that, even if you're busy, but honestly, I think people who are busy are going to get really good speeches just because they are doing interesting things in their life.

So to the club and share that with other people, that's a great way to give back to the community and to build your voice around what you're actually doing in life.

Exactly.

Now, let's go back to the idea of the evaluation.

Some projects, some Pathways projects require feedback from people outside the club.

So that would include managers, colleagues, team members.

Some members of Toastmasters skip those requirements, just kind of gloss over them.

How do we get members to take all the requirements and actual criteria of a project seriously?

I think largely educating people, you know, explain why they matter and make them easy.

The outside evaluation requirements exist because Toastmasters wants you to apply skills beyond the club.

Getting feedback from your manager on a presentation you give at work proves you're transferring learning.

It's an outside of the club eyes that are helping you to see what it looks like in the real world.

And usually you're seeing that you've grown.

And so that can be very encouraging.

And if it's somewhat discouraging, you can then go back into the club and practice it more in the club, in a very safe, collaborative, supportive environment.

So it really gives people a chance to bring their speeches and their speaking skills outside of Toastmasters into the real world.

So I think it's first important to help members understand the value and specifically that this isn't busy work.

It's about demonstrating real impact.

Secondly, it provides a template, you know, so you can educate them with a template.

You can create just a simple form where it says something like, I'm completing a Toastmasters project and would appreciate your feedback on my recent presentation specifically.

And then you could, you know, give some, you know, some of the objectives of the project.

So you make it easy for members to request feedback.

Go ahead and create some forms for projects that you're seeing and you're helping coach other people through and then make it kind of a resource for your club so that other people can very easily, you know, have those resources to work with as well.

And then third, normalize it.

Once again, normalizing is really important.

You know, when someone completes a project with outside evaluation, have them share what they learned.

Okay.

I got feedback from my manager and she said my storytelling really improved.

And that was encouraging, right?

Something like that.

When others hear that, they're more likely to do it themselves.

Yeah.

Love it.

It's really about integrating it into their actual lives so that you can actually, I think a lot of times people are like the Toastmasters club and it's like within Toastmasters, but no, it's actually like people who are doing things outside and they're coming into that storytelling space, so to speak, and sharing what they're doing.

Yes.

That's always really cool.

Some members feel like Pathways is too rigid or too formulaic compared to the old manuals.

I know that you will be busting that myth probably in a second.

They missed the freedom.

They missed the freedom to choose any topic for any speech.

Again, there's another myth there that we hear about.

How do you respond to those kinds of sentiments that sometimes occur in conversation or in popular thought?

Well, you guessed right.

I'm going to bust the myth, but here's how I do it.

I acknowledge what they're saying, and then I reframe the benefits.

The busting of myth is not going against it and breaking it.

It's shifting it to a viewpoint that is more accurate.

So here's how we would do with that particular topic.

I would say something like, yes, the old manuals gave you a speech title and you could interpret it however you wanted, but Pathways is more structured.

That structure serves a purpose.

It ensures comprehensive skill development.

In the old system, some people gave 30 speeches and never worked on vocal variety or body language because they avoided those manuals.

Pathways forces you to develop skills you might not naturally gravitate towards.

That said, within each project, there's plenty of creative freedom.

The topic is yours.

The content is yours.

The approach is yours.

Pathways gives you a skill focus, but you decide how to demonstrate it.

Here's the thing.

Most members who resist Pathways haven't actually tried it.

They are resistant to the idea of it, not the actual experience of it.

Once they've completed a few projects, they realize it's not as rigid as they feared.

Encourage skeptics to give it a fair chance.

A fair chance means complete at least level one before judging it.

Yeah, exactly.

For example, I'm a writer.

I have my own interests with Pathways where I bring that to it, but there's also an engineer student and he's done literal class projects.

He's used not the whole class project, but he's taken inspiration from his class project, a business owner.

It really does have quite a bit of flexibility if you open up the project and look at what it's actually asking you to do.

Some of them, of course, later on, but even those have flexibility.

Now, let's say that we have a member and they're the legacy members.

They've done a lot, but they've done it under the quote-unquote the old system or the old manuals.

They earned their CTM or DTM under those and now they're sitting in the club and they don't really see a reason to start the Pathways projects or the Pathways curriculum.

How would a club motivate these legacy members?

Well, I think definitely with respect for their experience and then also a compelling reason to engage.

First, acknowledge what they've accomplished.

You've achieved so much in Toastmasters and we're grateful for your leadership.

By all means, don't dismiss their past.

Then offer a value proposition, something like maybe Pathways offers a new skill and skill sets and perspectives that didn't exist in the old program.

Things like writing a compelling blog post or creating a podcast or leading innovation.

Even with all your experience, there's something here for you.

In other words, encourage them to explore paths that align with current interests.

If they're into public relations, suggest a path that fits that.

If they mentor others, suggest a path that is appropriate for that particular interest.

Then also remind them that completing Pathways paths is required for certain recognition moving forward.

Ultimately, we have to keep in mind that we can't force engagement.

That would backfire on us.

If people don't want to engage, leave them the freedom to not engage.

It's up to them.

They join the club and they're going to get out of it what they want to get out of it.

If they don't want to get the Pathways education, then that's up to them.

Focus the energy on the members who are receptive and model enthusiasm.

Focus on the new members with Pathways.

Get them going right away.

This might take a little bit of diplomacy, but here's the thing with Pathways versus older systems.

People who went through the older systems might believe that they're better than Pathways.

That may or may not be true.

We don't need to argue that.

What is true is that new people coming in don't have the old systems.

New people coming in only have Pathways.

They had the old system and they got the benefit of that.

By belittling and putting down Pathways and criticizing Pathways to the new member, you're making those new members discouraged about the only thing they have to work with, which is Pathways.

Even if an older experienced member doesn't want to work with Pathways, they can encourage the new members to pursue and engage with the growth program of Toastmasters that's available today.

If they want to complain, complain upwards to the district and beyond.

If they have some complaints about it, don't complain to the new people.

Don't steal their opportunity to get some benefit out of Toastmasters, even if it's inferior in the opinion of those people who went through the old ways.

Yeah, definitely.

Use your voice where it actually matters and don't use your voice sabotaging.

Right.

So focus on the new people.

And then sometimes legacy members come around when they see others thriving with Pathways.

Thanks.

Let's turn our attention to the DCP, which we talked about last episode.

Pathways drives six of the 10 DCP goals, all the education awards.

If a club wants to achieve President's Distinguished, obviously they're going to have to complete or they're going to have to have members that are completing levels.

So what's the strategic approach to hitting the education goals in terms of doing the Pathways projects, having members doing the Pathways projects?

It's actually really simple.

It requires just reverse engineering.

You start with the map.

So to hit all six education goals, you're going to need four Level 1 awards, two Level 2s, two more Level 2s, two Level 3s, and then one Level 4 or a Path Completion or a DTM, and then one more Level 4 Path Completion or DTM.

So according to the map, that's a total of 11 levels or awards across different levels.

So you need to have multiple members progressing at different paces.

Your strategic approach should be identify your Level 1 candidates who are typically new and early stage members who can realistically complete Level 1 this year, and then get them moving immediately.

And we have new members in Ozark Orders who complete Level 1 within six weeks, two months on a regular basis just because they see other people doing it.

And that's just the way it's done.

And the beauty is that all those Level 1s are seats for the future levels.

Even if they don't get completed quite as quickly, there are people working on those other levels.

And so we have people at different levels working on those levels all at the same time.

Not one person all at the same time, but we have people within the club.

In any given level, there's a person in the club that's working on it.

And in the lower levels more than in the higher levels.

And so you get them moving immediately.

Then you identify your Level 2 and 3 candidates.

Those would be mid-stage members who've completed Level 1, and they're working through the subsequent levels.

And you just keep them motivated and keep them scheduled.

Okay, then finally you identify your advanced candidates.

Those are experienced members who are close to Level 4 or path completions, maybe even DTMs. And then support them in finishing strong.

Okay, the VP should literally map this out.

Create a roadmap to success.

Who will contribute which awards and what support do they need?

Last year in Ozark Orders, we made presidents distinguished, and I literally mapped out who was going to complete what.

And it wasn't that I was going to make them do it, but it's who I felt was going to be able to do that.

And then I started checking if they could do it and then encouraging them to do it if they were agreeable to that idea.

And so I literally had roadmaps.

And not everybody completed what I thought they would complete, but other people came up and surprised me because they saw other people working on it.

So the idea is not to insist on the roadmap being completed, but have a roadmap and then start working that roadmap and allow circumstances to adjust it real time.

But it's really basically creating a roadmap.

And one of the best tools I think for doing that is to go to Basecamp, then the Basecamp Manager, look at the tab that's Pathways in Progress, and look at everybody's progress chart and see where they're at and map out your levels.

Who can make this many?

Who can make that many?

And in the beginning of the Toastmasters year, I actually talked to people and say, hey, how many speeches would you like to do?

Like every six weeks, every two months, what kind of pace do you want to do?

And then from based on what their general thinking is, I will map out how many levels that I think they will complete for the year based on that.

Now things will change.

That's not a problem.

I'm just getting on the road.

And then when there are twists and turn in the road, I adjust for the twist and turn, but I already have a general roadmap.

And that's really the way to do it.

Just reverse engineer, go look at what you need, and then engineer towards what you need by looking at what's on the roadmap that will get you there.

Make sense.

Now that sounds like a lot of tracking and coordination.

What tools can VPEs use to manage this effectively?

Well, Basecamp is your primary tool.

It's going to show you every member's project in real time.

It took me a while to find out where that was.

A division director showed me and that was like a game changer for me.

And it's Basecamp and then Basecamp manager, and then go to paths and progress.

And it's all laid out right there for you, like just real time.

And so the VP ideally would log in at least weekly to see who's completed projects.

And you can kind of start seeing who's stalling out.

And you can also see who's close to finishing a level.

And that's a really a very solid way of tracking and following through with it.

But Basecamp alone may not be enough.

So I recommend creating a simple spreadsheet or tracker.

And basically, it's the member's name, then their current path, and then all the levels laid out.

And then I show where they are within that level.

So project two of four, or project three of four, or project four of four.

And then when it's approved, I turned that into a checkmark.

So I just am making a visual representation of their pathway because they can't see it in real, they're doing the pathway, but they can't see a visual representation of it.

So I make the visual representation as a chart.

So I'd recommend doing that.

And that really gives you a visual dashboard of clubwide progress.

And it also helps you identify where to focus attention.

You can also set up automated reminders.

Okay, if someone hasn't given a speech in, say, six weeks, reach out some kind of a tickler system, a tickler file system, or some kind of electronic system, but you might just want to check in regularly with people.

And if someone is one project away from completing a level, check in.

Okay, you know, you're so close, let's get your schedule.

Okay, the key is making pathways progress a standing agenda item at every officer meeting.

Okay, every officer meeting, you know, bring it up, you know, track it, then discuss it, and then act on it.

Yeah, very good.

I've seen you do that, too.

And our, it was our coordinators, officers meetings, it's helpful to get other officers who are really good at their other roles, but maybe they're not thinking about pathways.

So yes, co create the culture.

Exactly.

Let's say club is struggling with the higher level education goals.

So once we started talking about level three, level four, level five, you've got plenty of level ones, but you can't seem to get members to go deeper and do those higher level projects.

What is the fix to that problem?

At that point, you need to cultivate depth and not just breath.

Okay, and that's going to require a few shifts.

First, you know, retention, if members are leaving after level one or level two, you're never, you're never achieving higher level awards with them.

So you know, maybe listeners might want to go back to episode one, you know, fix your member experience so people stay.

And the second is mentorship members who go deep usually have strong mentors or peer support.

So create accountability partnerships where members, you know, who are working at level three or four check in with each other regularly.

Third recognition, make level three and higher completions a huge deal.

Okay, bring cake, maybe or ice cream, give a special rib ribbon, you know, feature them in your newsletter, make it something people aspire to, and we'll know that it's a great thing to do.

And every level they complete, they're seeing they're getting closer to that.

Fourth, you remove barriers, okay, higher level projects can be intimidating.

Okay, I do this often I offer workshops on complex project types, okay, workshops on panel discussions or research based speeches or outside evaluations.

Right now in Division A, I'm putting together a on the division website, a page for podcasts.

And this is really a place where people who are doing the podcast elective, they can publish, you know, quote, unquote, publish their podcast, you know, by putting, you know, putting it up there.

And so they don't have to, you know, figure out, you know, how to host the podcast, they can just, you know, put it put up the audio file there.

And it could be played, it can be played there.

So they, you know, just make it, make it easy for people to be able to complete the projects.

Yeah, you know, and you can, you can what the whole trick, Derek, is to make the level completion achievable, not impossible, make it feel achievable.

Okay.

And then fifth is leadership.

Often the members who complete paths are also your club leaders.

So encourage officers to model pathways engagement, they should definitely be modeling pathways engagement.

You know, and that's really, you know, the members are looking to the leaders, you know, not what they're saying, but they're going to model.

And if the leaders aren't doing pathways, you know, and like I said, not necessarily doing a lot, you know, but always making progress on them, you know, so so having momentum, the members will will pick up and do the same also.

Yeah, that's great.

And for officers who are listening, this is like, if you have a couple already planned out in your back pocket, like, for example, I went, yes, for a little while without doing any speeches.

Why?

Because, well, there were lots of new members, and I would prefer them to get, you know, participate in the club, I'm already actively engaged with with other aspects of it.

But when, you know, it got busy, and there were less of those individuals, you know, for whatever reason.

Okay, you know, I'll quit my pathway.

Yes, exactly.

But that's you got to have to have them like in your back pocket, so to speak, so that you can just pull them out and get them done.

Yes.

If you're an officer, one thing I did was I just looked at the pathway I was on.

And I said, okay, this is the speeches I want to do for these are these are the projects I'm doing.

These are the electives I'm doing, I've already like figured out from my life, what do I want to take from my life and put into this project.

So, you know, be proactive about it.

And you'll be helping create that culture.

Yes, absolutely.

The new requirements for the Toastmasters skill series, speeches are another one maybe to have in your back pocket.

I think that's a great idea.

Have some have a project in your back pocket.

And when somebody doesn't show up, don't just leave the slot going filled, fill it yourself and work on, you know, work on your projects.

Let's kind of do a hypothetical and get your feedback on this.

Let's say it's April and your club has achieved a level four level or I'm sorry, has achieved four level one awards, two level two awards, but you're stuck there.

And so what you need then is the two more level two awards, two level threes, and then ideally some level fours to hit the president's distinguished.

So what's the emergency action plan so that you get all your your, as you like to say, the KPIs in order before the deadline hits?

Triage and focus.

OK, first you want to identify who's closest to completing the next level.

And you pull up Basecamp and look who's at four out of five projects in level two, you know, or, you know, who's who's getting really close to finish and then get them scheduled immediately for their final project.

Who's halfway through level three?

Prioritize getting them to finish.

OK, so don't spread your attention too thin.

Focus on the members most likely to complete levels in the next two months.

Don't forget they may not end up doing it and that's OK because somebody else may end up surprising you.

OK, second, provide intensive support, offer extra practice sessions or connect them with experienced evaluators who can give detailed feedback and just really support your members.

Remove any obstacles in their way.

And that's a big one.

A lot of times the obstacles aren't really all that big, but they feel big to the person who's standing in front of it.

And just with a little bit of perspective and a little bit of perhaps, you know, coaching around it, the obstacles will go away.

And then third, you want to create urgency without pressure.

OK, we're so close to our club goals and your progress is a key part of that.

You know, the club is a team effort and hitting the, you know, in this scenario, it's President's Distinguished.

Hitting President's Distinguished has to, it's an accomplishment that takes, that requires many people in the club participating.

And so, you know, we really are all in this.

And so we really need you to, you know, to go through with this and help to support this effort.

So once again, don't pressure, but create some kind of urgency.

And, you know, fourthly, you want to schedule strategically.

OK, make sure that these members get prime speaking slots.

OK, not the rushed end of meeting spots.

OK, you know, get them in there and get them prime speaking slots.

I remember, you know, last year when we were doing, when we were nearing President's Distinguished, it was getting the end of the Toastmasters year and there were some people finishing some levels and I needed them to get the speeches in.

But then I also needed to get a speech in and it was at my elective.

I did, I did the panel.

I was going to do the panel live.

But then what I did is I ended up bringing the panel online and then I had, I had, I had, and so and then I recorded it and put it up on our club web, on our, you know, club's website.

And it turned out to be a great thing.

But, you know, instead of, you know, doing 20 minute panel or 25 minute panel, taking up two to three speaking slots for the meeting and cutting other people out from, you know, finishing levels also.

I just brought it online.

And if I recall correctly, you were my evaluator.

And, you know, it was basically a club event anyway, because everybody on the panel was in the club.

So it worked out perfect.

So, so really, you know, keep, keep members who are doing their speeches in the prime speaking slots.

And something that we're going to begin experimenting with in Ozark Orators beginning in January is one night a month, we're going to have pathway speech completion nights.

And so it'll be, you know, one night a week and it'll be run for a pathway speech can come and then they'll evaluate each other.

Won't be a Toastmasters meeting.

We're just going to be doing speeches, but we'll have, we'll have the evaluators, you know, people doing evaluations, you know, peer evaluations back and forth.

And we're going to knock out some extra slots for pathway speeches for anybody who really wants to get it in there.

So you may need to be creative, you know, host something like that.

Yeah.

It's really, it's about marshalling all your club's resources to help key members succeed.

You've got to identify the key members at that moment, you know, and they're, they're key because of where they're at or what they can do at that moment that's needed.

And then marshal all the club's resources to help those key members succeed at that moment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And thinking about the ecosystem and, and, you know, you can come up with creative solutions if you, if you put some thought to it, you know, like put like not blowing the whole meeting out by doing a 30 minute project, but instead of recording the project and you know, and actually that created a nice piece of content too.

Yeah.

And see, these are real world leadership skills that we're getting as officers.

I mean, Toastmasters is a fantastic place for, for developing leadership and speaking skills.

We can use our creativity and we can really expand how much we get out of it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Now let's say that we have the opposite quote unquote problem that somebody has overachieved on the education goals.

So maybe they hit all the goals by March, should they just coast or is there value in continuing to push pathways progress?

Yeah.

Well I've seen a lot in this area here, but what I, my answer would be absolutely continue.

Okay.

First, because pathways progress is about member development, not just the DCP points.

The DCP points are minimums.

And what I've seen a lot of times is people will hold their points after they've got the minimum for the club until and apply it for the next year.

And there, you know, it's one thing to be strategic, but if, you know, if you're like, if, if it's like, you know, a few weeks before the end of the Toastmaster year or a month, okay, do that.

But don't stop six months in before you start turning in your levels.

And you know, one of the nice, you know, with the recent upgrade in the pathways, you now have to complete roles for every level you do.

So really that's not going to be possible anymore because you can only turn, you can't just turn in a bunch of level completions, you know, all in the same week.

You're going to have to spend some time filling roles you know, from pathway to pathway to pathway that you're trying to fill in.

It's, it's, it really, you know, those minimum, those six points, those, those are the KPIs, the key performance indicators, but those are minimums.

And if you, I mean, the club is doing great if they get them, but a club is doing even better if they're go beyond them.

And so really, you know, get your club going beyond.

And if you've got some people finishing up higher levels and you keep them moving, now they'll move into the next year and they're now on the lower levels, levels again.

And if you keep the ones that are completing the lower levels moving throughout the year, now they're working on the higher ones the next year.

So it really is much more healthy for a club just to keep going with the pathways.

It's, it's not just the DCP, you know, checkoff.

It's, it's the DCP goals are there to help people to, to get the base of it, but keep building on that base.

If you stop emphasizing education in the final quarter, you're sending a message that awards matter more than growth.

And really that's the wrong message for Toastmasters.

And second, continued progress builds momentum into the next year.

You know, as I mentioned, those members who finished level two in May are positioned to achieve level three early next year.

And third, it reinforces your club culture.

You know, clubs that consistently achieve high DCP status do so because pathways is always a priority, not just when they're behind on goals.

And fourth, there's always another milestone.

If you've hit all six DCP education goals, you know, challenge your club to complete two full paths or have 10 members reach level three or earn your first DTM.

You know, keep raising the bars.

Excellence is, should be a habit, not a target.

And we don't want to miss, you know, developing that viewpoint that excellence is a habit by also, you know, considering, you know, minimal amounts of progress as strategy or, you know, being a strategy that we're working.

Make the strategy you're working to continue getting more and more levels.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, and like, you know, as Frank Sinatra would say, writing high in April, shot down in May.

So, you know, don't, don't, don't think because it's good, you know, and I get it that like, well, saving the points.

But honestly, like you said, I think Toastmasters got wise to that.

And yeah, as a monkey business like that, they're not going to, you know, if it's allowed, it's fair game and it's fair strategy.

But I think that it was, you know, I think that it kind of backfires in terms of a bigger, you know, picture of a culture of pathways completions.

Yeah.

And well, the call, and I even like your project with the panel.

I mean, some of those, those individuals decided to move on with their life and you don't live in the state anymore.

So, you know, it's, it's the, but because the culture was there, people that weren't even in the club at that point are already on like level two or level three of their projects because there was culture being sustained.

That's right.

So, yeah.

Now we've talked a lot about systems and tracking, but let's talk about the human element of what we're talking about here.

How does pathways create emotional engagement and connection to the club itself?

Well, pathways creates emotional engagement through visible progress and personal transformation.

Okay.

Think about it.

When you complete level one, you've given five speeches and you can see your improvement.

Okay.

You're more confident.

Your storytelling is better.

Your eye contact is stronger.

That's tangible and it's, it's tangible with real world skill value.

Okay.

When you complete a full path, you've invested months, possibly years and it doesn't really matter, but you've invested a significant amount of time and work and you've fundamentally changed how you communicate.

And that creates a deep sense of accomplishment and connection, not just the pathways, but to the club that supported you through it.

Okay.

That the emotional engagement comes from the journey.

And when clubs celebrate that journey publicly, recognizing each level, sharing success stories, connecting members, pathways, progress to the real world achievements, they create an emotional culture where members feel seen and valued and proud.

And that's what keeps people coming back.

Let's talk about the mid career slump, which we might describe as members who were engaged.

They would complete a level one or two, but then they hit a plateau and they stopped progressing.

We may still see those people around, but they're rarely giving any speeches.

How do you re-engage members who were off to a good start, but then stopped engaging?

Basically the same with new members, personal conversation and tailored support.

You're just supporting them at a level of more experience with pathways.

The VPE or a mentor needs to reach out one-to-one.

Okay.

Saying something like, well, I've noticed you haven't given a speech in a while, what's going on and how can I help?

You know, listen to their answer.

Maybe they're just busy with work or maybe they hit a project that intimidates them.

You know, maybe they've lost clarity on why they're in Toastmasters even.

Once you understand the barrier, just address that specifically.

If they're busy, help them choose a project that aligns with something they're already working on.

If they're intimidated, offer to practice with them or pair them with a mentor who's completed that project.

If they've lost clarity, then help them connect or reconnect with their original goals.

Why did you join Toastmasters?

Are you achieving that?

What would re-energize your journey?

You know, sometimes people just need permission to take a break and that's okay too, but make sure that they know the door is open when they're ready to re-engage.

You know, clubs aren't that big.

If you have 20 or 25 or 30 members, you're doing pretty good.

I know there are some clubs bigger, but if you've got 20 or 25 or 30 members, you're doing pretty good.

And the numbers are never really not manageable to treat people as individuals and work with them individually.

We're not working with hundreds or thousands of members, right?

We're working with tens of members.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And a club that's got 30 people, you're going to have some pretty strong...

You're going to have mentors.

Yes, exactly.

Hopefully.

You definitely have the culture is good.

Yes.

I imagine with 30 people, if you got to that point, you're either in a very populous location or you did some great things in terms of the culture.

Well, Ozark Orders is close to that.

We'll do that.

I think we're going to get there.

And we're in a rural area.

So, I mean, it is a college town and there are people around and it's the county seat.

So, but it's still a pretty small place.

It's very small.

Yeah.

And, but I'm going to get there before you know it because it's a culture building.

Exactly.

Some clubs struggle because they don't have enough speech slots for everyone who wants to speak.

How do you balance giving everyone opportunities while also creating urgency to progress through pathways?

Because I know you said that getting people involved quickly is important, but how do we balance the need for time and fitting it, everything in?

Well, we have to recognize that it's actually a good problem to have.

Okay.

Because it means that members are engaged.

Okay.

But you're right.

You do need to manage it.

So first, maximize capacity.

Have as many prepared speeches per meeting as your meeting time allows.

At Ozark Orders, we have time for three.

We've allotted time for three.

We need to use those three every time that we can and as much as we can.

If some clubs only have time for two speeches, then make sure you've got two speakers.

Just make sure that you're getting people in to do the speaking and keep those slots open for speakers and preferably pathway speeches by having officers do pathway speeches when nobody else is doing speeches during those times.

But somehow keep that momentum of the speeches going.

Second, use a fair rotation system.

Okay.

Something like you might say, well, everyone gets a speech slot every six to eight weeks with a priority given to members who haven't spoken recently or who are close to completing the level.

Or third, you can encourage advanced members to give speeches at other clubs or enter speech contests.

Okay.

I've given, well, I'm a member of a couple of different clubs and so I've given speeches there.

So I have a natural out, but people can give guest speeches.

Okay.

And that frees up slots and develops their skills further.

And I also mentioned how Ozark Orders is going to begin experimenting with a Zoom night every month that is specifically for pathways speeches.

So get creative.

And then fourth, create urgency strategically.

Okay.

If somebody hasn't given a speech in three months, okay.

Move them to the front of the queue, you know, get them higher priority to help them to be encouraged to give a speech.

And that balances opportunity with some accountability.

And fifth, you can celebrate that demand.

We have so many members eager to speak.

That's a sign of a healthy club.

It is.

Okay.

So frame it positively while working on solutions.

You know, well, I think a lot of times I'll be coaching or, you know, advising, you know, informally Toastmasters Club where they just have a couple of people, two or three.

And what I hear oftentimes, you know, people saying there is like, well, one of the selling features is, you know, that we have, you know, we have slots for, you know, everyone's going to get a speaking slot and everybody wants one.

And that's true.

But unfortunately with smaller members, it's hard to get the energy up where people, you know, really see that as a benefit.

They're looking more at the energy.

But the fact is, you know, if you have a set number of speeches, you can rotate people to get everybody a chance to speak.

Now, you have to, you have to, you know, preserve that.

For example, when we added some new roles into the meeting and we are trying to tighten up to an hour long with Ozark Orders.

Ozark Orders loves table topics.

Everybody loves tables topics in that club, which is great.

But we always did three speeches and we, our speeches started, our meetings started running longer and longer.

And so we really tightened it up and we tightened up our agenda.

But in order to, you know, work in some new things that would advance, enhance the meetings for new people coming in and visitors, in other words, more role explanations and a couple extra roles that would make the meeting more fun for them.

That meant that we had to be really tight to our schedule.

And I had to limit the, I had to fit the time for table topics into the agenda.

And it only got so much time.

So not everybody could do a table topic like they used to do.

And the meetings would go on for a long time.

We didn't want that anymore.

So, you know, when I limited the time for table topics to like 16 minutes, a pretty good time.

I've been in clubs where they don't give 16 minutes to table topics.

But, you know, I limited, you know, there so that we can keep the meeting to an hour.

Then people were saying, oh, well, we want to do, you know, we want more table topics.

And then it's like, well, OK, if we do, we have to take away a meeting schedule, a scheduled meeting.

We can do it, but we'd have to take a scheduled meeting or we have to expand the meeting time or we need to take away a speaking slot.

And here's the thing.

We do have three speaking slots and there's, you know, basically four months a year.

And so that gives us 12 slots for speaking a month.

And, you know, look at all the people that are trying to do speeches.

We would be cutting them out.

And so, you know, you've got to get this to get the slots that you can and then preserve those slots and understand that to do some other things.

You may if you give up on them, you understand what you're giving up.

You're giving up the chance for people to do speeches.

Right.

Which is why they're presumably in Toastmasters.

Yes, definitely.

And, you know, at a certain point, it's it's it helps people realize, you know, it brings them into the process.

And, you know, it's good that they consider it that I will say we have done a really good job at getting the meetings on time.

We squish a lot in an hour or so.

I would if you're struggling with it as an officer, because it was it was kind of a struggle for us, even even us for a little while.

But if you're, you know, just kind of work through the process and you'll get to it, it's just you have to go through the process, just go through the process and work as a team.

You know, the meetings are a team effort and the accomplishments of the club are a team effort, even though individual people are doing things that are are adding to the success of the entire club.

It's still a team effort.

Work with everybody.

And if you need more speaking slots, you'll figure out how to do that.

What are you going to trade off to get it or how are you going to creatively add more and definitely preserve the slots you have value those times?

Absolutely.

So we've covered a lot of ground again today.

There's one key takeaway you want club offers officers to have about pathways as a growth tool.

What would that be?

Pathways is not just an educational program.

It's the engine that drives club quality, member retention and DCP success.

And DCP success is really the quality of the club to the individual member.

How well is that individual club serving the individual member?

So when I say DCP success, I'm not talking about a program, although it is a program.

But what I'm really talking about, it's a program that ensures that individual members within the club are getting a high quality growth oriented experience.

And so pathways is the engine that drives that.

So when you prioritize pathways, everything else falls into place.

Members who are progressing through pathways are engaged.

They're satisfied.

And because of that, they're likely to renew.

They're achieving visible results that they share with others, which attracts new members.

They're completing levels that contribute to DCP goals.

And that earns club recognition.

And they're developing skills that change their lives, which is why we exist.

So if you want to grow your club in numbers and quality and impact in a breadth of experience and depth of experience, make pathways your top priority.

Invest in, and not just because it's pathways, but because pathways is the personal and professional growth program of Toastmasters.

It's what really is the engine of growth at Toastmasters.

And so invest in helping others navigate it, create a culture that celebrates progress and remove every barrier that prevents members from completing levels.

That is a real world leadership skill on the part of your officers in your club to do that.

It's not a problem.

It's a feature.

And so take that feature of that challenge and then approach it as club officers to overcome that challenge.

And then you will seek success of your clubs and that's the success of your leadership.

Don't require other parts of the organization to fix things for you.

Figure out what it is that you have to work with and then learn the leader.

It's like a giant sandbox, your club, and you get to play around at leadership.

So try some things and see what you can do to make it work.

And in that playing around and making it work, you're gaining real skills that are very valuable in the real world when it really counts in your job or your relationships or whatever.

So if you make pathways the engine that drives your club's growth and quality, growth is going to follow.

Very good.

What's one action step a club officer, especially the vice president of education, because they're directly involved with this, could take this week to strengthen their club's pathways engagement?

Log into Basecamp, go to Basecamp manager, look at the paths and progress tab and review every member's pathways progress and identify your at-risk members.

Anyone who hasn't completed a project in the last 60 days or who completed their icebreaker months ago but hasn't moved forward.

Then reach out to three of those members personally this week with a message like, I noticed you haven't given a speech recently.

I'd love to help you get back on track with your pathways journey.

Can we talk about what you're working on and get your schedule?

Those three conversations this week could be the spark that re-engages members and then gets project schedules and move your club towards DCP goals.

And if those three that you asked this week don't come through or fall away, do three again next week.

Because along the way, you're going to find the ones that do start re-engaging or connecting in a meaningful way with pathways and therefore the projects and then therefore completing levels.

And then you're going to see growth in your club that way.

One personal touch multiplied across your membership transforms the club culture.

Don't wait, act this week.

Well, Derek, I think we've made a strong case today that Pathways is far more than just an educational program.

It's the heart of what makes Toastmasters valuable and the engine that drives club growth.

When members are actively progressing through Pathways, you see the ripple effects everywhere.

They're more engaged in meetings.

They're more likely to renew their membership.

They're experiencing real world transformation that they talk about with colleagues and friends.

And they're helping your club achieve those critical DCP education goals that make up more than half your club's success metrics.

The key is to make Pathways accessible, relevant, and celebrated.

Help new members choose paths that align with their goals.

Provide hands-on support navigating Basecamp.

Create a culture where completing levels is normal and recognized.

Remove barriers that cause members to stall out.

And use the progress tracking tools available to you in Basecamp so you're proactive, not reactive.

Remember, every level completion is a win, not just for that member, but for your entire club.

It proves your club is delivering value to the members.

It contributes to club goals, and it creates a momentum that attracts others.

So whether you're a vice president education, managing the educational program, a mentor supporting a protege through their first path, or a club president trying to build a culture of achievement, invest in Pathways.

Make it a priority.

Make it visible.

Make it celebrated.

And watch your club grow.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Growth Masters.

We've now completed our three-episode series on club growth, from creating a magnetic new member experience, to mastering the Distinguished Club Program, to leveraging Pathways as your growth engine.

If you found these episodes valuable, please share them with other club officers in your area or division.

And if you have topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes, reach out to us through your area or division leadership.

I'm Jim Zaboran, Division A Director for District 8, and thanks to Derek Zaboran for his great questions throughout this mini-series.

And thanks to all you club officers out there who are working hard every day to build excellent clubs where members can grow their communication and leadership skills.

Remember, growth isn't just about numbers.

It's about creating clubs where people feel welcome, supported, and empowered to achieve their goals.

When you focus on quality, growth follows.

Keep leading with excellence, and until next time, this has been Growth Masters.

Bye-bye.